tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post5174538230831933801..comments2023-10-09T07:04:49.539-07:00Comments on Writing: Blood orangesfranzyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02400212989359954521noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post-45694703981366362312008-11-13T03:27:00.000-08:002008-11-13T03:27:00.000-08:00Perhaps some people just can't comprehend somethin...<I><BR/>Perhaps some people just can't comprehend something they disagree with?</I><BR/><BR/>And this ironically is the exact problem the Bali bombers had in the first place.franzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02400212989359954521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post-69345280568519165772008-11-12T23:27:00.000-08:002008-11-12T23:27:00.000-08:00Well it was a pretty popular topic of conversation...Well it was a pretty popular topic of conversation at my previous place of employment. And despite attempts to discuss the actual possible motivations of the attackers there were a few who remained convinced that these people were just monsters or insane. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps some people just can't comprehend something they disagree with?Andy Pantshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12662774187144557481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post-61389325863329827622008-11-11T00:19:00.000-08:002008-11-11T00:19:00.000-08:00I think that's where the core of my anti-death-pen...I think that's where the core of my anti-death-penalty-even-for-mass-murdering-terrorists believe comes from.<BR/><BR/>To prevent something, you must first understand it. And how can you possibly hope to understand anything by killing it?<BR/><BR/>The problem with the death penalty is that it's an extremely archaic solution to a very modern and complex problem. <BR/>It's like trying to cure cancer by sacrificing goats. <BR/>The death penalty might act as a deterrent to (some) drug smugglers but as a punishment it offers no individual hope of redemption, and therefore no solution to the problem of terrorism.<BR/><BR/>By the way - who can't understand the motives of the Bali bombers? Surely the full range of explanations you offered are fairly prevalent - everything from "They're jealous of the west" to "They're dispossessed, freewheeling sociopathic victims of fundamentalist psuedoreligious whack jobs with no concept of humanity".franzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02400212989359954521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post-28793090946130946692008-11-10T21:35:00.000-08:002008-11-10T21:35:00.000-08:00This is off topic but... I've had people tell me t...This is off topic but... I've had people tell me they don't understand the motivations of the attackers. But I think can understand their motivations perfectly. Put yourself in their situation. You live in an a third-world country with third-rate helathcare and education systems. And the only real foundation for your economy is a seemingly constant stream of rich ignorant Australian tourists who come to your beaches purely to get drunk, take drugs and generally act like obnoxious bogans. In the process suppourting the drug trade which has probably torn apart your family or friends and destroyed any shred of dignity your nation might have had. Then along comes a particular school of fundamentalist islam which tells you that you aren't worthless and makes an easy scape-goat out of the very people, whom with the aide of the media you've learned to hate all this time. Better still, this particular religion as it has been interpreted for you justifies the killing of enemies of Islam. And you belong to the very same school of fundamentalist Islam which the western world was apparently waging war on at the time. <BR/><BR/>It's not justifiable, but it is understandable.<BR/><BR/>I have a problem with people who refuse to understand the motivation for acts when they disagree with them. This happens with various tragic events throughout history. The Jewish holocaust and the genocide in Darfur just to name a few. I think you need to understand the flawed logic of the individuals who commit these crimes in order to avoid it.<BR/><BR/>The question I find myself constantly asking people is this. If you choose not to even acknowledge the existence of a motivation, no matter how shallow. How can you possibly hope to prevent such a thing from happening again?Andy Pantshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12662774187144557481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post-3874489918462517462008-11-09T22:15:00.000-08:002008-11-09T22:15:00.000-08:00Shippy - I just finished reading an article which ...Shippy - I just finished reading an article which outlined the poor way in which the bombers were handled by the Indonesian government, which you also mentioned: ie. allowed to marry, talk to children, communicate with the outside world other than their lawyers. They gave interviews, published books and were accorded a certain amount of celebrity - none of which gave the impression that the Indonesian Govt was concerned about the families of the victims. <BR/>So life in the prison of celebrity seems much more pleasant than the prison of anonymity. But death for them? It only guarantees death.<BR/><BR/>Kath - I do agree that some victims' families are probably feeling better today than yesterday. But they will never stop feeling the worst ever and the death sentences now guarantee that there is no chance of healing.<BR/><BR/>Squib - You're right, you're right: we should never give up hope! Right on!<BR/>I guess that's why the death sentence bothers me - it denies any hope for an improvement, at all, ever.franzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02400212989359954521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post-25013514497371178522008-11-09T21:51:00.000-08:002008-11-09T21:51:00.000-08:00I think it's neither here nor there what we think....I think it's neither here nor there what we think. We don't have any control over how people are punished over there. The problem of course is it will only beget more violence<BR/><BR/>Ultimately there is no solution because humans are a lamentable bunch of no-hopers who will never live in peace <BR/><BR/>On that happy note...squibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10744419106501810243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post-24348198200480889852008-11-09T19:27:00.001-08:002008-11-09T19:27:00.001-08:00GTH - that's one helluva an evil gardening shed yo...GTH - that's one helluva an evil gardening shed you have thereKath Locketthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09677312773827236567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post-38176637594229765962008-11-09T19:27:00.000-08:002008-11-09T19:27:00.000-08:00Brian Deegan couldn't have said it better myself. ...Brian Deegan couldn't have said it better myself. Some Islamic leaders in Indonesia have also come out and said that none of these three misguided clowns will be - forgive my paraphrasing here - getting that magical ticket to heaven and access to the 77 virgins and should not be celebrated as heroes.<BR/><BR/>I could never condone killing another human being and yet maybe this is easy for me to say because it wasn't my child, sister or partner killed in the attack or me having to see the bombers' insanely smiling faces paraded in the media every day.<BR/><BR/>You're right though Franzy. Three extra graves won't make an ounce of difference or put off any other lunatic (['lunatic' being the key word here) from doing something similar, but it might, just might, have eased some of the mental and emotional anguish of some of the victims' families. Maybe.<BR/><BR/>Can I have a cheezel too?Kath Locketthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09677312773827236567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post-84213021283954323192008-11-09T19:01:00.000-08:002008-11-09T19:01:00.000-08:00I have a feeling that when they were sentenced to ...I have a feeling that when they were sentenced to death/life, the discussion was made by many of the people heavily involved in the Bali situation.<BR/><BR/>Yes, it doesn't make sense taking someone's life if they don't value it, however if they didn't value it, wouldn't they have been a Martyr with the bombings, although the definition of Martyr means technically now they are Martyrs and it means they get so many virgins after death or something like that. <BR/><BR/>It's one of the questions that has been passed around for years. How do you punish these crimes? Many people in the US appear to be quick to ask for death; I don't want to be making a stereotypical suggestion, but Australia is turning more and more like the US everyday. The Oklahoma bombing was probably an easy one for the US officials to jump on, with the culprit Tim whocares, being fast tracked to death. Was it easier being an American? Did he value his life any more than these Indonesian 'Martyrs'? Who makes the decision as to how much they value their lives?<BR/><BR/>I'd almost be leaning towards calling it Euthanasia.<BR/><BR/>Cheezels passed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post-87683193095478479512008-11-09T17:46:00.000-08:002008-11-09T17:46:00.000-08:00I reckon you get a point for keeping gaol Aussie.Y...I reckon you get a point for keeping gaol Aussie.<BR/>Yes, I also have that "lifetime in gaol" theory, but maybe "gaol" could mean "Australian gaol" or "U.S. military gaol".<BR/>Perhaps all terrorists should be asked to name their cause, and then be sent to whatever country's gaol they were fighting against. Presumably living among the hated infidel would be far less pleasant and more like gaol than the alternative.<BR/><BR/>This is where it begins to become difficult. How do you punish someone by depriving them of liberty, or even their own lives, if they do not value it?<BR/>And doesn't punishment also have the ring of hope for rehabilitation sitting above it? As thought the punished will become sorry and see, through their punishment, what their errors have been?<BR/><BR/>I wonder if I'm the first person ever to think about this stuff? Pass the cheezels, man - this is deep ...franzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02400212989359954521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4696126386168661766.post-9986969662969481292008-11-09T17:12:00.000-08:002008-11-09T17:12:00.000-08:00I had a theory, about the suffering these guys wou...I had a theory, about the suffering these guys would have had with a lifetime in gaol (jail to my American friends) that would be removed if the death sentence was inflicted. However, considering the fact that one of them was allowed to get married in gaol and they are allowed to talk to young childern about war against western countries, made me think differently. I don't really understand some of the Eastern countries laws/punishments but then again, I don't really understand some of our own.<BR/><BR/>GTH: Franzy's suggestion of tools implementing a possible consequence of mass murderers due to the senseless violence that they partake in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com